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Minority Matters November 2013

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There have been movies, documentaries, blog posts, and conversations about African-American hair and what constitutes good hair in the community.  The debate over natural or permed or textured hair has been picking up for a while and some say that natural hair is connetion to our African heritage and kinky hair is not as professional and prefer it straightened chemically or otherwise.  Panelist Include: Dian Hicks, Owner, Dian's Miracle Bazaar; Angela Bradford-Barnes, Stay-at- home Mom; DeCarlo Collins, Internet Radio Talk Show Host

TRANSCRIPT

HELLO AND WELCOME TO "MINORITY MATTERS" I AM YOUR HOST SYLVESTER SMITH.  THERE HAVE BEEN MOVIES, DOCUMENTARY ANDS BLOGS AND CONVERSATIONS ABOUT AFRICAN-AMERICAN HAIR AND WHAT CONSTITUTES GOOD HAIR IN THIS COMMUNITY.  THE DEBATE OVER NATURAL OR PERMED OR TEXTURED HAIR HAS BEEN PICKING UP FOR A WHILE AND SOME SAY THAT NATURAL HAIR IS CONNECTION TO OUR AFRICAN HERITAGE AND KINKY HAIR IS NOT PROFESSIONAL AND PREFER IT STRAIGHTENED CHEMICALLY OR OTHERWISE AND WE WILL TALK WITH DIAN HICKS OF DIAN'S MIRACLE BAZAAR AND ANGELA BRADFORD-BARNES A STAY-AT-HOME MOM AND DECARLO COLLINS A INTERNET RADIO TALK SHOW HOST. LADIES, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY TO TALK ABOUT THIS INTERESTING TOPIC.  IT SEEMS WHEREVER YOU GO WHETHER IN THE BEAUTY SHOP, THE BARBER SHOP OR AT WORK OR READING SOCIAL MEDIA THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE HEAR A LOT ABOUT AND OFTEN OUR FRIENDS IN THE WHITE COMMUNITY ARE OFTEN CURIOUS ABOUT THIS ISSUE AS WELL.  IN A POINT IN MY LIFE I WORE NATURAL HAIR AND I GOT REQUESTS TO FEEL IT AND TOUCH IT AND WHAT IT'S LIKE AND LET'S GET INTO THIS AND TALK ABOUT THIS AND ANGELA I WILL START WITH YOU AND YOU HAVE TWO DAUGHTERS AND TELL US ABOUT YOUR CHOICE TO HAVE NATURAL HAIR?

I THINK IT'S INTERESTING AFTER ALL THIS TIME WE'RE STILL THINK GOING THIS ISSUE AND SENSITIVE IN OUR COMMUNITY.  I AM ONE OF THE ACCIDENTAL NATURALISTS AND IN 2008 I WAS WORKING OUT A LOT AND LOSING WEIGHT AND I HAD HAIR FALLING OUT AND CHUNKS AND ONE DAY I WALKED INTO MY BEAUTICIAN'S OFFICE AND SHAVE IT OFF RIGHT NOW AND I DIDN'T TRANSITION LIKE OTHERS AND PERM IT AND UNTIL IT'S NATURAL AND I SHAVED IT OFF AT ONCE AND THEN I TURNED IN THE MIRROR AND ALMOST SCREAMED SO IMMEDIATELY I WENT TO A HAIR STORE AND I TO ADMIT THIS I PURCHASED A WIG IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE I WAS ASHAMED OF THE IMAGE I SAW.  IT WAS A WOMAN I DIDN'T RECOGNIZE SO I TOOK CARE OF MY HAIR.  PEOPLE HAVE A MISCONCEPTION ONCE YOU TURN NATURAL YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO A LOT TO IT.  THAT'S FAR FROM THE TRUTH AND I DID RESEARCH. THERE ARE YOUTUBE VIDEOS HOW TO STYLE YOUR HAIR, COME UP WITH DIFFERENT PRODUCTS FOR YOUR HAIR, AND I KIND OF FOUND WHAT WORKED FOR ME, AND I WOULD KIND OF MAKE OLIVE OIL AND COCONUT OIL AND SHEA MOISTURE AND NURSED MY HAIR UNTIL IT GREW OUT. WHEN I DYE MY HAIR I AM CONSCIOUS OF WHAT I PUT IN MY SYSTEM AND USED A DYE GOOD FOR NATURAL HAIR SO IT'S ONE OF THE BEST DECISIONS I EVER MADE.

NOW, IF I HAVE THE CHRONOLOGY RIGHT WHEN YOU MADE THIS TRANSITION YOU WERE WORKING AT A MAJOR POLITICAL PARTY.

I WAS.

AND HOW DID YOUR WHITE COLLEAGUES VIEWED THIS SHIFT WHEN YOU STARTED DISPLAYING YOUR NATURAL HAIR?

IT WAS INTERESTING AND ONCE I DID THE BIG CHOP I CONCEALED MY HAIR FOR A LONG TIME AND I WOULD GET COMPLEMENTS "YOUR HAIR IS SO NICE"  AND THEY DIDN'T KNOW IT WASN'T MY HAIR SO WHEN I WOULD WEAR MY HAIR -- "OH YOU JUST GOT A HAIRCUT"  SO THEY WERE OBLIVIOUS TO WHAT WAS GOING ON. MORE SO THE AFRICAN-AMERICANS I WAS IN CONTACT WITH AND THEY WERE CONSCIOUS "OH YOU WENT NATURAL"  INSTEAD OF SAYING THAT'S THE NATURAL CONDITION OF YOUR HAIR, SO I REALLY DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF PUSH BACK IN MY OPINION FROM CAUCASIAN COLLEAGUES AT ALL.

DECARLO YOU HAVE YOUR OWN THOUGHTS.  YOU'RE A INTERNET RADIO HOST AND WITH DECARLO COLLINS AND TELL US ABOUT YOUR OPINION WITH WOMEN WITH NATURAL HAIR?

I GREW UP IN SOUTH ARKANSAS SO TOLD EITHER TO HAVE YOUR HAIR STRAIGHTENED OUR HAVE IT CUT LIKE MOST BOYS OR PEOPLE OR IF YOU DID CORNROWS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT YOU ARE LOOKED LIKE OTHERWISE AND WHEN YOU COME UP IN THE WORLD YOU'RE STEREOTYPED AND WHEN I LOOKED AT IT AND WHEN I SAW A WOMAN WITH NATURAL HAIR OKAY SHE'S NOT TAKEN CARE OF IT. WHY IS IT LOOKING LIKE THIS? AND THEN MY OWN EDUCATION CAME UP AND MOST OF THAT IS FROM GETTING THE CHEMICALS OUT OF THE HAIR OR SYSTEM, BUT WHEN YOU GO INTO A CORPORATE SOCIETY AND ME AS WORKING AND A HIRING MANAGER WHEN YOU SEE A PERSON WITH STRAIGHT HAIR AND CLEAN CUT AND YOU'RE LOOKING THAT THEY PRESENT THEMSELVES WELL AND A ATTITUDE OF I AM COMING IN.  I AM CLEAN CUT.  I AM PERFECT.  THIS IS A JOB FOR ME.  I KNOW WHAT I WANT TO DO BUT WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE COME IN WITH YOUR STYLE OF HAIR OR CORNROWS OR DREADS AND WHAT ARE YOU DOING?  AND YOU HAVE THEM PROBABLY STEREOTYPED IN AND I AM USED TO SEEING A MAN OR WOMAN WITH THE HAIR STRAIGHT OR LIKE OURS AND THEY FIT WHAT WE NEED, NOT THE PERSON THAT WALKS IN WITH DREADS OR CORNROWS OR HAIR SHAGGED OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT BECAUSE THE FIRST THING YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT IS HOW ARE THEY GOING TO REPRESENT US IN THE COMPANY AND THE WORLD? THAT'S HOW I PERCEIVE T DO I PREFER A WOMAN WITH NATURAL OR STRAIGHT HAIR?  IT DEPENDS HOW THEY TAKE CARE OF IT.  LET'S BE HONEST.  FOR YOU IT WAS BY ACCIDENT ALMOST.  FOR SOME -- SOME PEOPLE MAKE IT BY CHOICE AND IF YOU HAVE THAT WOMAN THAT SAYS "I'M GOING  TO GO NATURAL" AND NEXT THING SHE GOES 2-3 WEEKS WITHOUT A PERM IN IT AND DRIVES HER NUTS AND NEXT THING I TO GO BACK AND GET THIS BOX AND PUT THE PERM BACK IN MY HAIR AND CAN'T HANDLE IT AND THERE SAY TRUE PROCESS AND I SEE IT FROM THAT POINT BUT I AM USED TO LONG OR STRAIGHT HAIR BECAUSE OF WHERE I COME FROM AND THAT'S HOW WE TALK.

LET'S THROW THIS OUT BACK THERE AND JELL JELL AND DIAN YOU MAY HAVE RESPONSE TO THAT AND I WANT TO GO BACK TO WHAT WAS BROUGHT UP AND THE NATURAL HAIR AND THE AN TIS THIS OF THE NATURAL IMAGE AND LADIES WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT?

IT'S UNFORTUNATE WE ARE STILL THINKING ON THAT LINES AND WE LIVE IN A MULTI-CULTURAL SOCIETY AND GLOBAL ENVIRONMENT AND THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT PEOPLE THAT WE HAVE TO WORK WITH, AND IT'S KIND OF A CULTURAL INSENSITIVE TO SAY THAT THE WAY THAT GOD BLESSED YOUR WAY TO COME OUT IS SOMEHOW UNPROFESSIONAL.  I UNDERSTAND WE'RE IN A CERTAIN SOCIETY AND THERE ARE CERTAIN STANDARDS AND SOMETIMES THAT'S ALL YOU REALLY SEE IS THE STRAIGHTS, OR THE PERMS OR  WEAVED HAIR AND IN SOME SOCIETIES THAT'S THE NORM AND IS THAT RIGHT?  IS THAT FAIR?  A PERSON COULD WALK IN AND HAVE ALL OF THE CREDENTIALS A POSITION NEEDS AND BECAUSE THEIR APPEARANCE DOESN'T FIT WITH THE IMAGE THEY MIGHT BE THEY GET PASSED UP ON THE JOB AND I THINK THAT IS INSENSITIVE AND UNFAIR.

THAT IS TRUE.  GO AHEAD MS. DIAN.

I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT EVEN THOUGH THEY PICTURE US AS BEING WHEN YOU WALK IN -- LIKE DECARLO WAS SAYING AND IT FORMS A PICTURE BUT THE THING ABOUT IT IF YOU TALK ABOUT IT WHETHER IT'S NATURAL, STRAIGHT, CORNROWS AND THE MAIN THING IS TAKING CARE OF THE HAIR AND YOU CAN WEAR IT AND IT'S PRESENTABLE AND CLEAN AND EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN OPINION ABOUT YOU IN THE WORK SOCIETY, BUT STILL WE GOT TO LOOK AT SOMETIMES -- YOU LOOK AT SOMEONE COME IN IT'S NOT KEPT UP.

[INAUDIBLE]

IT GOES FOR ALL HAIR.

ABSOLUTELY.

CORNROWS -- EXCUSE ME, EITHER CORNROWS -- YOU KNOW, THE DREADS.

ABSOLUTELY.

BECAUSE I WENT INTO A SUBWAY AND THE GUY HAD DREADS AND NO NET ON THE HAIR AND I WALKED STRAIGHT OUT.  NO, I'M NOT EATING MY OWN HAIR.  I'M NOT EATING YOURS AND THAT'S THE WAY I LOOK AT IT AND IF IT'S NOT CLEAN I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT AND THAT'S WHAT I SAY IN SOCIETY.

AND YOU HAVE TO LOOK HOW YOU CAME UP IN HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE AND THE FIRST THING THEY SAY IS WHEN YOU GO ON A JOB INTERVIEW OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT WHEN YOU WALK IN THAT'S THE FIRST IMPRESSION.

I AGREE.

AND THAT HAPPENS AND I COULD SAY ME AS BEING IN THE UPPER MANAGEMENT POSITION WHERE I SEEN A POSITION WALK IN AND THE FIRST THING I AM LOOKING AT IS HOW ARE THEY COMING FROM THE INTERVIEW? I AM HONEST AND THAT'S HOW I AM LOOKING AT IT AND WHAT ARE THEY LOOKING LIKE IN THE INTERVIEW AND I HAVE SOME PROFESSIONAL AND SUITS AND PRESENT THEMSELVES AS A PROFESSIONAL AND THEN YOU HAVE THE ONES THAT CAME IN YOU DON'T KNOW WHO RAISED THEM.  YOU HAVE SAGGING JEANS AND THEIR HAIR IS REPRESENTING PRETTY MUCH WHAT THEY HAVE ON AND THAT IS THE STEREOTYPE WHERE IT COMES FROM SO IMAGINE THEY GO INTO A OFFICE WHERE THE WHITE PERSON IS THE HIRING MANAGER WHAT ABOUT THAT? THEY ARE LOOKING AT IT THEY SHOULD ALMOST LOOK LIKE US FROM A WHITE'S PERSON STANDPOINT, NOT HOW THEY LOOK.  IF YOU LOOK AT TODAY'S JOBS AND WAY THEY'RE DOING IT NOW ANYTHING IS ALMOST ACCEPTED IF YOU LOOK AT IT FROM NATURAL HAIR, TO THE WAY THEY DRESS.  A LOT OF TIMES YOU GO TO THE INTERVIEW THEY DON'T HAVE YOU WEAR A SUIT ANYMORE AND NOW THE HAIR STYLE IT'S ACCEPTED TO SEE SOMEONE WITH DREAD LOCKS OR NATURAL HAIR THAT'S COMING TO THE JOB INTRODUCE OR EVEN OWNING A BUSINESS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.  THEY'RE COMING IN AND PRESENTED IN A DIFFERENT WAY BUT AS MS. DIAN SAID IT'S HOW YOU TAKE CARE OF IT AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM A LOT OF TIMES.  WE HAVE SOME PEOPLE -- LIKE YOU FOR EXAMPLE AND A LOT OF WOMEN THEY KNOW THAT TAKE CARE OF THEIR HAIR BECAUSE THEY WANT TO LOOK GOOD AND PRESENTABLE WHEN THEY GO OUT AND YOU HAVE SOME DO IT AND WAKE UP IN THE MORNING AND THEY HAVE A BAG IN THEIR HAIR TRYING TO KEEP THINGS FROM SHOWING AND WHATEVER IT IS AND THAT HAPPENS AND THAT PERCEPTION STILL.

I WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND THE MAINTENANCE AND THE HYGIENE OF IT AND ALSO THE STYLING BECAUSE YOU CAN WEAR AN  AFRO AND CLEANED AND MAINTAINED BUT NOT APPROPRIATE.

YEAH.

I CAN GET THAT PERCEPTION.

HERE'S THE OTHER THING AND SOMETIMES MY JOB IS TO PLAY DEVIL'S ADVOCATE AND DECARLO IS OUT NUMBERED HERE AND DIAN SAID YOU WENT TO A BUSINESS AND YOU DO NATURAL HAIR AND NATURAL HAIR NOT AS CONTAINED AS WELL AS IT COULD BE AND TAINTDED THAT PERCEPTION OF THAT BUSINESS AND TO DECARLO'S POINT THERE ARE BUSINESSES ALL OVER AMERICA THAT BELIEVE THAT OUR PERSPECTIVE THAT WE WANT TO PROJECT FOR OUR BUSINESS IS A MAINSTREAM PERSPECTIVE AND IF YOU WEAR NATURAL HAIR, AND I HAVE WORN NATURAL HAIR THEN YOU'RE WANT NECESSARILY PROJECTING A MAINSTREAM IMAGE SO FAIR OR NOT ONE OF THE THINGS YOU SAID DECARLO IT'S NOT FAIR TO MAKE AN OPINION OF A PERSON BASED ON THE HAIR BUT IT'S AN ORGANIZATION'S RIGHT TO SAY IT'S NOT CONSISTENT WITH OUR IMAGE HERE.

I AGREE IT'S NOT FAIR TO SAY BECAUSE A PERSON CAME INTO THE FACILITY WITH A NATURAL IMAGE THAT THEY NOT PUT THEIR BEST FOOT FORWARD.  I'M NOT SURE IF THAT IS A FAIR STATEMENT AND I HAVE BEEN IN HR AND I UNDERSTAND YOU WANT SOMEONE TO FIT INTO YOUR CULTURE AND IF THAT'S NOT THE IMAGE THAT YOU PROJECT THEN I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT.

AND IT ALSO AFFECTS OUR SOCIETY NOW IF YOU REALLY LOOK AT IT AND THINK ABOUT HOW WE'RE RAISING MOST OF OUR CHILDREN TODAY.  WE GIVE THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THEIR OWN IMAGE OR HAVE THEIR OWN WAY OF LOOKING IN LIFE, YOU KNOW, AND COMING UP -- AND I KNOW COMING UP WHEN WE WERE YOUNG YOUR MOWRKT, YOUR FATHER, YOUR GRANDPARENTS TAUGHT YOU WHEN YOU WALK OUT INTO THIS WORLD YOU HAVE TO LOOK A CERTAIN WAY. YOU HAVE TO BE A CERTAIN WAY.  IF NOT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THAT PERCEPTION FROM THE GET GO.  MY MOTHER USED TO TELL ME FIRST YOU HAVE TWO STRIKES AGAINST YOU IN THIS WORLD.  FIRST OF ALL YOU'RE BLACK AND SECOND YOU'RE MALE SO WHATEVER YOU DO AFTER THIS THE THIRD STRIKE IS GOING TO COME IMMEDIATELY SO THAT'S WHY I LOOK AT WHEN I GO OUT AND WHETHER IT'S MY JOB OR WHETHER ON THE RADIO OR OUT IN THE PUBLIC I ALWAYS MAKE SURE EITHER WAY I AM GOING TO LOOK PRESENTABLE AND I DON'T WANT SOMEONE GOING TO MY JOB OR SOMEWHERE AND I SAW DECARLO THE OTHER DAY AND HIS HAIR WAS RAGGITY.  HE DIDN'T SHAVE.  HE HAD BEAT UP TENNIS SHOES.  WHAT IS GOING ON WITH HIM?  BECAUSE OF YOUR IMAGE AND REGARDLESS WHAT YOU SAY OUR IMAGE CARRIES US SO MUCH AND THAT IS HOW THE SOCIETY IS.  DO WE WANT IT LIKE THAT?  NO.  BUT THAT'S THE TRUTH.

AND THERE ARE THINGS TO LOOK AT AND YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT YOURSELF AND DO I WANT TO LOOK LIKE THIS?  AND EVEN THOUGH WE RAISED OUR CHILDREN AND MY GRANDMOTHER SAID "YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO BE CLEAN NO MATTER WHERE YOU'RE GOING"  AND NOW WE HAVE CHILDREN RAISING CHILDREN SO WE HAVE A PROBLEM IN THIS AREA AND THEY'RE KNOW TEACHING LIKE US AND DO WHAT YOU WANT BECAUSE THEY'RE TOO BUSY BUT WHERE I GREW UP PARENTS TOLD US THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO DO.  THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU NEED TO.  DO YOU NEED TO TAKE A BATH EVERY NIGHT, BRUSH YOUR TEETH, AND TAKE CARE OF YOUR HAIR AND PUT DEODORANT ON AND THE CHILDREN ARE RAISING THEMSELVES AND ANOTHER GENERATION AND THESE KIDS ARE RAISING THEMSELVES AND THE HAIR COMES OUT AND ON THE BUS LINE. IT'S AWFUL BUT STILL THAT THEY ARE REPRESENTING US AND WHETHER IT'S AGREEABLE IN THE SOCIETY. SOCIETY -- WE HAVE TO LEARN TO TAKE CARE OF OURSELVES.  WE HAVE TO BE PRESENTABLE TO THE PUBLIC. WE HAVE TO.  IF YOU'RE NOT PROBABLABLE YOU WILL NOT GET A JOB.

LET ME ASK THIS AND YOU'RE A HAIR STYLISTS AND DO NATURAL HAIR AND WEAVED HAIR AND WHAT ARE YOU HEARING HOW IT'S PERCEIVED BY MAINSTREAM AMERICA?

SOME SAY IT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE AND I COULD SAY THE SAME THING. IT'S NOT ABOUT ACCEPTABLE.  WE SAY PRESENT YOURSELF WELL.  MY CLIENT SAYS "L I WAS GOING TO GO NATURAL AND ON THE JOB I GETTING BAD INFLUENCE AND CONTACT AND I'M GOING BACK STRAIGHT."  I AM SAYING THIS JUST BECAUSE OF YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO BACK STRAIGHT. YOU CAN PRESS YOUR HAIR.  WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY AND THE PRESS HAIR WORKS AS WELL AS THE PERMED HAIR.

YAY, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT.

THE PERM HAIR IS THE PROCESS IN HOW YOU DO IT.  IT'S A PROCESS AND YOU NEED A PROCESS GOING DOING THE PRESSED HAIR AND MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW HOW TO PRESS BECAUSE THEY STOP TEACHING IN SCHOOLS.

LET'S BACK UP AND WE HAVE 10 MINUTES LEFT AND I WANT TO HELP WITH THE TECHNICAL ASPECTS FOR THE AUDIENCE.  WILL YOU WALK US THROUGH PERMED HAIR, PRESSED HAIR AND NATURAL HAIR.

PERMED HAIR AND USE THE TEXLAXER AND STRAIGHTEN IT OUT.

WHAT IS THAT?

IT'S SODIUM HYDROXIDE AND YOU MIX IT UP AND IN THE HAIR AND PULL IT ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE HAIR AND STRAIGHTENS THE AREA AND THEN WE HAVE WHAT WE CALL PRESS HAIR.  WE HAVE A HOT COM. PUT IT ON THE STOVE AND PRESS IT AND IT'S HOT BECAUSE IT WILL BURN IF IT'S TOO CLOSE TO THE SCALP AND NATURAL HAIR IS WHEN YOU DON'T DO ANYTHING ON THE HAIR.  I HAVE NATURAL HAIR.  NO CHEMICALS AT ALL.  BUT WE AS A CULTURE, BLACK, AFRICAN-AMERICAN AMERICA WE HAVE ABOUT THREE DIFFERENT LAYERS OF HAIR ON OUR HEAD RIGHT NOW SO IF YOU LEARN HAIR THEN YOU CAN DO ANY TYPE OF HAIR BUT THE PROBLEM WITH THE BEAUTICIANS -- I SAY BECAUSE I AM IN COSMETOLOGY WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO DEAL WITH THE INDIVIDUALS BUT THE HAIR PERMED, PRESSED OR STRAIGHT.  THEY CAN ALL LOOK GOOD AND HOW YOU TAKE CARE OF IT AND WHAT YOU DO. MOST PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND ON THE SCALP AND ON THE SKIN AND USE ANTIACCEPTIC.  SCALP ANTISKEPTIC TO CLEAN THE SCALP AREA.  WE CLEAN THE HAIR BUT THE SCALP YOU NEVER TOUCH AND YOU GET THROUGH AND YOU HAVE RESIDUE ON THE SCALP AND THAT'S ANOTHER THING.  "MY HAIR DON'T SHINE." YOU HAVE NATURAL OILS AND IT WILL SHINE.  YOU WILL HAVE THE NATURAL OIL GLANDS IN THE BODY AND IT WILL SHINE BUT YOU HAVE TO CLEANSE THE HAIR WELL.  WITH NATURAL HAIR IT'S WORK. NATURAL HAIR IS WORK.  IT TAKES MORE TO DO NATURAL HAIR THAN PERMED HAIR.  YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE EVERY STRAND OF THE HAIR AND EVERYTHING COMES FROM THE ENVIRONMENT AND YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE IT'S CLEAN.  AND I CAN SAY ANYTHING THING AND BAKING SODA AND SHAMPOO AND CLEANSE THE HAIR AND FEEL LIKE SILK AND CLEANSE THE HAIR.  YOU WILL SEE STUFF COMING THROUGH THE SINK WHEN YOU RINSE IT OUT BECAUSE ACCUMULATE EVERYTHING BECAUSE IT'S NATURAL AND HOLDS MORE, BUT WHEN THE HAIR IS STRAIGHT IT DOESN'T HOLD AS MUCH.  SEE THE LOOPS AROUND IT SO YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT THAT.  DIFFERENT SHAMPOOS. YOU HAVE TO REALIZE YOU CAN'T PUT EVERY SHAMPOO YOU SEE AND MOST TIMES THE CHEAPER THAT'S WHAT THEY GRAB BUT YOU CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE IT HAS TOO MUCH DETERJ ANTD IN THERE AND IT STRIPS.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS AND I KNOW WE'RE SHORT ON TIME.  I HAVE DONE MY RESEARCH AND THIS WHOLE PERMING PROCESS, THOSE CHEMICALS THAT YOU DESCRIBED, THEY ACTUALLY HAVE -- THEY INTERACT WITH THE HAIR AND THEY LITERALLY CHANGE THE MAKEUP OF THE HAIR DOWN TO A MOLECULAR LEVEL AND THIS PROCESS OF TEXTURIZING IT REALLY IS A CHEMICAL PROCESS, SO WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THE WAY THAT CHEMICAL PROCESS  AFFECTS THE HAIR, THE SCALP AND THE BODY AND ARE THERE HEALTH IMPLICATIONS FOR PUTTING INTO THE SYSTEM?

IT WILL AFFECT ME MORE THE INDIVIDUAL AND I AM SMELLING IT ON TOP OF THE HEAD.  YOU HAVE TO WASH THE SCALP AND THAT'S WHY YOU BASE THE SCALP SO DOWN INTO THE SCALP AND AN EIGHTH AWAY FROM THE SCALP.  MOST JUST SLAP IT ON AND THEY'RE NOT EDUCATED WITH IT.  PEOPLE SAY "I DO MY OWN"  AND THAT'S FINE AND AS A BEAUTICIAN AND GO FOR A JOB AND WHOLE LINE OF PEOPLE AND I GO TO SCHOOL TO LEARN THIS BECAUSE WHEN I FIRST WENT TO SCHOOL I WAS DOING HAIR BUT I DIDN'T KNOW THE CHEMICALS BEHIND IT AND IT'S DANGEROUS DOING THIS SO YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL BUT YOU PUT A PROTECTOR ON THE SCALP AND YOU HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME TO LEAVE IT ON AND TAKE IT OFF.

I HAVE FOUR MINUTES LEFT ANGELA AND YOU HAVE FOUR DAUGHTERS AND WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH THEIR HAIR OR IF HEALTH PLAYS A CONCERN?

I AM CONCERNED ABOUT PUTTING CHEMICALS IN MY DAUGHTER'S HAIR. MY 13 YEAR OLD HAD A PERM AND GREW UP I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED BUT THE HAIR STARTED TO SHED AS WELL AND SHE ASKED TO GET IT CUT AND SHE HAS HAIR THAT SHE CAN DO THAT AND SHE'S NATURAL AND WE'RE GOING TO STAY THAT WAY AND PUTTING CHEMICALS ON A CHILD'S HEAD EVERY SIX WEEKS IS A HEALTH HAZARD AND I GOT SOME ON MY SCALP AND IT BLISTERED AND BURNED AND IT WAS HORRIBLE AND IF YOU DO THAT EVERY SIX WEEKS YOUR ENTIRE LIFE IT HAS TO BE RELATED TO SOME HEALTH ISSUES DOWN THE ROAD SO WE'RE GOING TO SAY NATURAL AS LONG AS I HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY.

CAN I SAY SOMETHING?

SURE.

WHEN DEALING WITH CHILDREN WHEN THEY REACH THE AGE OF 12, 13 YEARS OLD YOU PUT A PERM ON THE HEAD THEN.  YOU DO NOT PUT A PERM ON THE CHILD'S HAIR BEFORE THEN AND IF IT'S A GIRL HER BODY IS CHANGING AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS AFFECTS THE HAIR AND WHATEVER IS GOING ON IN THE BODY AND IT'S AFFECTING THE HAIR AND IF YOU PUT THE PERM ON BEFORE 13 THAT IS VERY DANGEROUS TO THE CHILD.

WELL, DIAN YOU CLEARLY KNOW A LOT ABOUT THIS.  WILL YOU SHARE WITH THE VIEWERS HOW THEY CAN GET IN TOUCH WITH YOU.

SURE.  I AM DIAN HICKS AND I AM THE OWNER OF DIAN'S MIRACLE BAZAAR AND 6420 MABELVALE AND MY PHONE NUMBER IS LISTED.  YOU CAN REACH ME THERE.

AND DECARLO WOULD YOU LET THE VIEWERS KNOW WHERE THEY CAN CHECK OUT THE RADIO SHOW?

YEAH, ON [INAUDIBLE].COM. THE NAME OF THE SHOW IS [INAUDIBLE] WITH DECARLO.  I AIR IT EVERY SUNDAY FROM 6:00 O'CLOCK TO 8:00 O'CLOCK AND DIFFERENT RADIO TOPICS AND CHECK ME OUT AT TWITTER AND MY EMAIL IS COLLINS UNDER SCORE DECARLO AT YAHOO.COM.

WE WILL WRAP IT UP WITH FINAL THOUGHTS AND I WILL START WITH YOU DECARLO.  YOU'RE MARRIED. DOES YOUR WIFE HAVE NATURAL HAIR OR A PERM?

SHE HAS A PERM. I SEE THE BOX EVERYDAY BUT THE ONE THING THAT I WILL SAY THIS AND I APPLAUD YOU WITH YOUR CHILDREN AND GIRLS -- ACTUALLY I'M DOING THE SAME THING.  WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THAT FROM THE DAY -- BEFORE SHE WAS BORN WE WERE GOING TO LET THE HAIR GO NATURAL UNTIL THAT POINT AND AS I SAID WE TALKED ABOUT PERCEPTION AND I THINK THE PERCEPTION OF HOW WE TAKE CARE OF OUR HAIR IS DONE BETTER THAN THE PERCEPTION FOR EVERYBODY, AND NOT JUST AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND ALL OF CREATION AND THIS IS THE WAY IT REALLY LOOKS LIKE.

ANGELA LAST WORDS.

LAST WORD IS I LOVE MY NATURAL.  I WISH MORE AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN AND MEN WOULD EMBRACE THEIR NATURAL -- NATURAL HAIR STATE BUT IT DOES TAKE WORK.  YOU HAVE TO MAINTAIN IT AND OF COURSE KEEP IT HEALTHY BUT IT'S ONE OF THE BEST DECISIONS I EVER MADE.

DIAN.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THIS REALLY GOOD AND IMPORTANT FOR THE PEOPLE TO KNOW, THE PERCEPTION OF THE HAIR AND HOW TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR HAIR AND YOU ARE ONCE THEY LOOK AT YOU THE FIRST IMPRESSION IS THE BEST IMPRESSION AND UP TO PAR TO WHAT WE'RE DOING.

WELL, THIS HAS BEEN A GREAT TOPIC AND I THINK MY THOUGHTS IN CLOSING WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS WORK TO MAKE SURE WHETHER WE HAVE STRAIGHT OR NATURAL HAIR THAT WE ALWAYS LOOK GOOD AND WELL PREPARED AND MORE THAN THAT THAT WE ARE WELL QUALIFIED FOR WHATEVER OPPORTUNITY WE'RE PURSUING AND WITH THEY WANT TO THANK ALL OF OUR VIEWERS FOR WATCHING US.  ONCE AGAIN THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND WE WILL SEE YOU NEXT MONTH.

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